freedom is where you might get shot walking your dog.
I tend to disagree for following reasons:
- freedom ends where someone elses freedom begins
- no one said freedom was save
- people don’t stop to murder other people without guns
Its a joke, don’t think too hard about it.
Freedom as a concept is to vague and personal to be useful any kind of real discussion; “freedom” means whatever you think it means. This is why politicians love to say it.
I would say that you’re right guns make people feel safe.
However, that the constant threat of violence in society leads to degradation of social norms, especially for children who then get less socialization and become more extreme.
You see this in like more people choosing to homeschool their kids - they then get lower quality education and poorer social skills and are less able to survive in society. In a capitalist world, this is slowly eating away the ability of americans to compete in a global economy and so there is a strong movement to isolate our economy which will only make us less competitive.
I would say that you’re right guns make people feel safe.
I just wanted to say that guns absolutely do not make me feel safe, knowing one is nearby or seeing one makes me incredibly anxious. Holding one even more so. I don’t understand how people can feel safe around them, to me it’s like having a ticking time bomb in the room but the timer was set by a rng.
That’s fine if you feel like that. And YOU should stay away from them and I fully support your desires and rights to do so. But others don’t feel the same.
And YOU should stay away from them
Why is drunk driving illegal when people should just stay away from drunk drivers?
I don’t support your rights to have them, sorry <3
Yeah no if I know there is an unsecured gun around that makes me feel anything except safe. There is only a very narrow set of circumstances in which having a gun around is non threatening and just walking around in public is not one of those.
Let’s take an example scenario: there’s someone who cut in line in front of you at the supermarket, upon confronting them they turn aggressive.
Scenario 1 (widespread gun ownership): you have to deescalate or risk potentially getting shot by a person that is very obviously not acting rational anymore. In turn this promotes less civil conduct as brashness is encouraged.
Scenario 2 (limited gun ownership): you can reasonably argue with the person since the highest threat you are facing is a pocket knife, a risk that can be mitigated by simply keeping your distance or an obstacle in between.
So yeah there is no reason to hand out guns like they are candy. They are a tool designed for war and violence and as such have no place just being carried around in public.
As a rule of thumb people stop to mass murder other people, without guns. With extremely rare exceptions, we don’t have that shit outside of the US and our schools are not shooting ranges.
The other two things you wrote are not reasons, they are a) a slogan that you could put on a 12 years old t shirt and b) something someone who is having a heart attack might say
Mass murder is extremely rare in general
Outside the US sure, that was my point.
In the States there’s a mass shooting every Tuesday.
I think it’s a bit more often than once a week.
Empty words from someone that does not understand how countries with less guns still work and don’t have CHILDREN KILLING IN THEIR SCHOOLS ALL THE TIME
I live in austria, we have gun rights and like 33guns/100people (if I remember correctly) and we never had a single school shooting in our history, also the terrorists involved in the shooting in vienna a few years ago illigaly imported their guns from serbia
But there is law governing how you store your firearms and ammunition, so kids can’t access them, right? It’s not true freedom then /s
That’s just not true / comparable. While Austria has more gun rights than in most other Western countries, it’s nothing in comparison to the US. In Austria, the only guns you can freely buy are single shot guns. And for those, you need to wait three days until you get them.
To get a very limited amount of semi-automatic weapons, you need to, similar to other western countries, have a Weapons possession card that’s subject authorization. To get it, you don’t only need a psychological report but also a justification, be 21 and need to fit other requirements. You also need to report every weapon you get so Austria knows where the weapons are.In the US meanwhile, it depends on the state you’re living very much, but in some states, you can get semi-automatic weapons (which are completely banned in Austria) in a shop in just minutes. And that without any background checks, psychological reports, justifications, approval required, without anything like that. In many states even convicted criminals can get guns like that. And it’s often not even age restricted. In the US, guns are sometimes a presents for kids which they can just…own and use (while in Austria everything is obviously 18+).
And the biggest difference is carrying a gun. In Austria, you are not allowed to carry them in public (and getting that licence is almost impossible for normal people). While in the US (in many states), you can just carry any gun around in public whatsoever. So even if the police sees you having weapons in public, they can’t / don’t do anything about that, because it’s just legal.
I general, the gun rights in Austria are bigger than in most of other Western Europe. But even Obama’s 2012 proposal to significantly lower the freedom of guns in the US would have resulted in still much bigger gun rights than in Austria. There is just a huge difference.
Also there are around 1.332.000 guns in Austria, with around 9.2 million people, that’s around 14 guns per 100 people.
You do have some errors in your little rant. While firearms are easier to acquire in the US as a rule, there are still some restrictions and forms you need to fill out. Plus there can be a near byzantine set of laws that each state and even cites can pass to further restrictions on purchase and ownership. It might be the biggest issue about firearms ownership that there are few national laws for enforcement. It’s mostly up to each state and city regulations and enforcement.
Convicted felons are pretty much barred from firearms ownership across the US. The only real exceptions might be a billionaire who can buy anything. Or perhaps it’s just easier to pay some else to shoot people for them.
Everyone has to fill out a Form 4473 which is a universal federal background check against a data base to see if you can legally own a firearm. It is an electronic background check done at the time of sale and transfer. It can take a few minutes or a few hours to get done. And you can be disqualified for a simple misspelling or even if your name is similar to a some who is barred from purchase. Then it’s up to you to get your name cleared. All and any firearms purchases through a dealer MUST have a Form 4472 attached. And the dealer must keep a record after the sale for a fairly long period of time. A good number of states have further restrictions and requirements on the purchase and ownership of firearms. Which require further state background checks and issuance of a special card to buy a firearm. And individual cities can impose further restrictions yet.
Minors, under 18 years of age, (a few are 21), in the majority of states cannot legally buy a firearm. And are generally only allowed to handle or use a firearm with an adult present - some exceptions would be during a hunting season and only when hunting. But even then, there will be an adult somewhere around.
Carrying a handgun publicly, with the exception of a very small number of states, is very controlled. Some states, like California or New York are quite restrictive to the point that pretty much only wealthy people can actually afford to pay for all the hoops you might need to jump through to get such a permit. A tiny number of states, like Texas allow for common carry laws without a permit, (often called Constitutional Carry). But the majority of states require that you have taken a special class and then go through more special background checks by local law enforcement to get the permit issued. And these permits require renewals every few years with more background checks every time.
Again, I think the biggest issue is the lack of a uniform national set of laws and requirements for firearms purchase and ownership is what confuses everyone. States are considered to have most of the power to make many laws that the federal government can’t over ride. Sometimes this is a good thing and sometimes not so good perhaps. But it’s the system we have for better or worse.
In the US meanwhile […] [a]nd that without any background checks, psychological reports, justifications, approval required, without anything like that. In many states even convicted criminals can get guns like that.
If you’re talking about buying a firearm from a store, that’s simply not factually correct.
Every single firearm sold by an FFL holder must have a form 4473 filled out, and each person buying a firearm must go through a criminal background check. ANY felony conviction that could have sent you to jail for more than a year–regardless of whether or not you got jail time–permanently bans you from owning a firearm until the conviction is expunged (and in many states, your gun rights need to be proactively reinstated). Any misdemeanor domestic violence conviction will likewise bar you from legally owning a firearm, as will having an active retraining order. Being involuntarily committed to a mental facility will bar you from ever owning a firearm at a federal level (without a judicial proceeding to restore your rights), and being voluntarily admitted will cost you your rights in some states.
Keep in mind that these are federal regulations that supersede any state or local regulations. A state can not opt out of the NICS or decide that gun stores don’t need to comply with BATF regulations. The only “exception” per se is that, in my state, a carry permit means that the gun store doesn’t have to send in form 4473 for approval; you’ve already passed a more stringent background check–including fingerprinting–so it would be moot. You do still need to fill out a form 4473, and the gun store is still required to retain a copy, but the instant background check is deemed irrelevant.
I’m not arguing one way or another but I want to clear up some very common misconceptions about US gun laws.
in some states, you can get semi-automatic weapons (which are completely banned in Austria) in a shop in just minutes. And that without any background checks, psychological reports, justifications, approval required, without anything like that
This is just blatantly untrue and I wish people would stop parroting it. If you go to any shop you need to pass a federal background check to buy any non-vintage firearm (pre-1899…not exactly a ton of those floating around). The exception here is private firearm sales, i.e. I go to Craigslist and sell a rifle or handgun. The law states the seller has to have no reasonable cause to believe they would be an unlawful possessor (weak, yes). With that said, almost half of the states (22 per Wikipedia) have implemented state-level laws requiring a background check for private sales.
In many states even convicted criminals can get guns like that.
Again, objectively untrue. You are not buying a firearm from any legal, licensed dealer in the US without going through a background check. And a violent criminal offense will get you barred from purchasing. For the 28 states without laws around private sales, the seller can be federally legally liable if they sell to someone that is not legally allowed to have a gun and they use it to commit crimes.
In the US, guns are sometimes a presents for kids which they can just…own and use (while in Austria everything is obviously 18+).
No, a child cannot legally own a firearm. The parent can purchase and own a firearm that they are allowed to use, but they do not own it. In many states if the child hurts themselves or others with such a firearm the parents will be held liable, many states have laws around safely storing firearms when children are around.
While in the US (in many states), you can just carry any gun around in public whatsoever. So even if the police sees you having weapons in public, they can’t / don’t do anything about that
In most states if you don’t have a license to conceal carry and you do you are breaking the law and can be charged. I’ll say this one isn’t entirely false but heavily depends on your state.
A large part of why this issue gets nowhere is that neither side can even agree on what is true today, rather than what should be true to bring down the issue of violent crime. If one side says “They’re totally unregulated you can just buy one off Amazon and start blasting. We have to do something!” The other side is gonna think “Well they obviously have no idea what they’re talking about, no point in listening to what they have to say”
you can buy this here in austria without a Waffenpass or Waffenbesitzkarte, you literally just need to be 18
EDIT: yeah, I thought I had the wrong numbers in mind
EDIT1: also, the Waffenpass (the thing you need to carry them in public isn’t hard to get https://www.oesterreich.gv.at/themen/gesetze_und_recht/waffenrecht/2/Seite.2450900.html#Voraussetzungen)
Gangs illegally acquiring their guns is how it works everywhere, even in the USA.
To be fair there are countries with a shitload of guns where this doesn’t happen. This is mostly US being a shithole.
Yeah, I actually suspect it’s not guns, but the US gun culture itself.
At compared to the other western countries, the gun rights in the US are a huge difference to almost all others. Switzerland is the one big exception I can think of, partly because of the huge shooting history / culture (which is often still actively celebrated) and because soldiers can take a private weapon to home (which had the original sense that in case of war, they could directly have a gun).
Sweden and Canada have pretty high rates of gun ownership and don’t have this problem. That said American school shootings are not as common as they are made out to be, there has been a lot of statistical fudging to make it look so much worse than it is.
What all three countries do have are problems with gangs and they’re only getting worse as poverty drives people to crime. America has it worse because it has more poverty, but we will all catch up soon enough.
My guy, any amount of school shooting is more common than they should be.
Canada has ~1/4 the firearms per capita compared to the US. My guess is that doesn’t matter, as you go over 1 gun/resident the added guns probably don’t have much of an impact.
However, most shootings in the US are with handguns (restricted in Canada), and a bunch of high-profile shootings with ARs (prohibited in Canada). Concealed carry is practically never allowed, and open carry isn’t either. Safe storage is required, so you can’t carry unsecured guns in your car either. Storing loaded firearms is forbidden. Owning firearms for self defense is forbidden by law (using them as such may or may not be, depending on the circumstances).
TL;DR: it’s not just how many guns, but also what you’re allowed to do with them.
School shootings aren’t a gang problem, and school shootings are way more common in the US than any other developed country.
Idk how you make shooting students / children out to be much worse than it is. Kinda seems like any stat greater than 0 should be unacceptable and cause for massive societal reevaluation.
Im just gonna point out we as a culture have been dealing with this problem of just random acts of violence for quite awhile, its just that what came before mass shootings is kinda glossed over / forgotten. Before the mass shootings we had bombing campaigns, the una bomber being the most notable. Its just that unless it was really big it rarely got all that much attention and due to how everything was disconnected at the time unless you were the FBI you may not have even noticed it was a thing.
The problem is that the Columbine mass shotting and rise of cameras kinda killed off the mass bombers. Also Columbine happened right when this shift was happening and thusly became the standard for what people do. If it was instead some dudes shooting up a police station I suspect that would have become the norm.
This is the real answer.
When you look at serious violent crime, defining that as robbery, battery, forcible rape, and murder, the rate of serious violent crime is similar in the US and UK (edit - and Australia!). The UK has largely removed firearms from the equation–which is easier, since they’re an island, and didn’t start with 600M firearms–and it has decreased the murder rate, but their overall violent crime rate is still quite high. Despite nominally having single payer health, the system has been intentionally broken by conservatives, and poverty is pretty significant. You see the same kind of sharp economic divides in the UK that you see in the US.
The predictable result is violence.
Murder isn’t the problem, it’s a symptom. It’s like saying that the awful cough and shortness of breath is your problem, and then thinking that cough syrup (with codeine!, since that’s the good shit that works!) is going to fix the underlying pneumonia.
It’s it a typo and you’re saying “people don’t stop murdering others without guns”?
people don’t stop to murder other people without guns
I live in a red state with lax gun laws. This is probably the stupidest thing I’ve heard anyone say on the Internet. You should sit down and have a talk with Ahmaud Arbery.
that’s a libertarian ideal. the problem is people don’t think their freedom ends where someone else’s begins.
Tho I support gun ownership, this guy has no business owning a gun
“If you are a [in my perception] a communist, you don’t wanna step on my lawn” === “If I don’t agree with you, I’ll shoot you”
Plus anyone saying “communist states” is definetly fallen victim of right wing propaganda and haven’t even take the time to research what communisim is. Even the US left political wing is quite capitalisitic.
Just a bunch of bad “arguments” bagged up with slapsticks words which he doesn’t even know the meaning of.
Just today I was reading some really concerning articles from Raymond along these lines.
http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=8708 http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=8752
"I had business outside today. I needed to go in towards Philly, closer to the riots, to get a new PSU put into the Great Beast. I went armed; I’ve been carrying at all times awake since Philadelphia started to burn and there were occasional reports of looters heading into the suburbs in other cities.
I knew I might be heading into civil unrest today. It didn’t happen. But it still could.
Therefore I’m announcing my rules of engagement should any of the riots connected with the atrocious murder of George Floyd reach the vicinity of my person.
I will shoot any person engaging in arson or other life-threatening behavior, issuing a warning to cease first if safety permits. Blacks and other minorities are otherwise safe from my gun; they have a legitimate grievance in the matter of this murder, and what they’re doing to their own neighborhoods and lives will be punishment enough for the utter folly of their means of expression once the dust settles. White rioters, on the other hand, will be presumed to be Antifa Communists attempting to manipulate this tragedy for Communist political ends; them I consider “enemies-general of all mankind, to be dealt with as wolves are” and will shoot immediately, without mercy or warning. UPDATE: I didn’t mention white nationalists because I judge my chances of encountering any member of that tiny, ineffectual movement to be effectively zero, and I refuse to cooperate with the mass-media fiction that they are a significant factor in this crisis.
We don’t have a problem with white nationalists attempting to burn down our country using black people as tools and proxies. We have a problem with Communists doing that. I insist on naming – and if necessary, shooting – the real enemy."
-ESR
Scratch a right-libertarian…
Man, that is some concerning shit, pardon my french. Really concerning shit.
Im just speachless tbh. I talk a lot, you can see it in this threat, but I can only say about that, that it is some very concerning shit.
Does he fancy himself to be Batman or what?
I think he fancied himself as what Rittenhouse fancied himself. If you check the dates, the “Rules for Rioters” post predates the Rittenhouse one.
But yeah, it was concerning enough to even leave an Argentino friend of mine, who voted for Milei no less, speechless.
He’s just waiting for the Reichstag to burn down, so he can blame the communists and enact some Enabling Act of
19332025
The good ole anti-antifa.
Meanwhile FOSS directly attacks multiple capitalist statements about communism
Open software is considered by many a modern example of a anachists-communist project.
The dude is just spewing what he belives to be truth without any regard for the concepts he is actually talking about. Even me supporting both FOSS and gun ownership I belive the whole video should be regard as misinformation/misrepresentation at the very least, propaganda in reality.
I’d say it’s more like syndicalism more than anything.
Open software is considered by many a modern example of a anachists-communist project.
Do you know of any good sources?
Not original commenter, but here’s Wikipedia article on anarcho-communism mentioning open source via gift economy
Not exactly good, my comment mostly stems from coversations both online and irl, that’s way I wrote " considered by many" and not just “considered”. There is a entry in wikipedia about it tho:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchist_communism#Gift_economies_and_commons-based_organizing
I watched this guy for a little bit and liked his Linux stuff and then in one video he started ranting about how those FOSS licenses that include a requirement to use software ethically are the worst thing in the universe because they bring politics into software and I thought “wait, this guy is ignorant asshole isn’t he?” and turns out yes, yes he is.
Not making the point to defend those licenses or not but all this guy cared about was FOSS not being political and it’s like…are you a child? Do you not understand how all of this is political?
People like this guy give FOSS a really ugly outward facing identity and it turns away soooo many potential contributors and chill people.
To your point about this guy being exactly the kind of person that shouldn’t be allowed to own a precision semiautomatic rifle with 30 round magazines of high caliber rifle rounds, I agree, I have seen that guy get so fucking angry about shit on his channel, he has no ability to control his anger and that kind of person shouldn’t be allowed to own an object that gives their temper tantrums the capacity to kill so many people so quickly before their rational control kicks back in.
“I don’t wanna get political in this video”
Get’s mega political and starts using political lingo used by the right wing
Way to go, dude, you played yourself.
I’ve also seen his temper in his videos plus adding what he said in this video, I am convinced the guy should not be allowed to own a damm BBGun. But he’s lucky he doesnt live in a “communist state”. Yo what a shitshow.
Some portions of the far right are allergic to being called “political”. Even outright Nazis often claim to be moderate. Part of the reason they end up having those beliefs is from a profound lack of awareness of self and others. They thus can convince themselves that they are the moderates, and everyone else is extreme
Of course, is easier to maintain your belives if you see yourself as “moderate” or “apolitical”. Is easier if you belive your line of toughts are share by a “silent majority” thus making it reasonable and moderate.
Just mental hops to affirm themselves.
Sounds a bit like insecurity to me, they don’t see or feel themselves as in the position or capacity to justify what they belive in, so they refuge behind “Is just common sense” or “we are the majority”, “is not political”, basically a post modern rehash of the naturalistic argument.
I’ve also seen his temper in his videos plus adding what he said in this video, I am convinced the guy should not be allowed to own a damm BBGun. But he’s lucky he doesnt live in a “communist state”. Yo what a shitshow.
You can see with these conservative white men when they clearly perceive a threatening universe everywhere they look based on their ideology. It is what directly leads to their irrational bouts of anger and violence, and causes things like…
"A 14-year-old African-American boy stopped to ask for directions to school in a Detroit suburb but was shot at instead, according to prosecutors…I got to the house and I knocked on the lady’s door. Then she started yelling at me and she was like, ‘Why are you trying to break into my house?’ " Walker told local station WJBK. “And I was trying to explain to her that I was trying to get directions to Rochester High. And she kept yelling at me. The guy came downstairs, and then he grabbed the gun, and I saw it and started to run. And that’s when I heard the gunshot,” he told the station.
the same old story over and over again
Rightwing white men afraid of the world and thus ready to project anger and violence at the slightest confirmation of whatever dumb bullshit they believe in isn’t a cute look for any community, which is probably why these people tend to feel so isolated in the first place…
Exactly. In a way there IS a “threat” for them, that they will not be anymore at the top of the pyramid, they see it as the “woke, communist, liberals” or whatever trying to subdue them, ironically what they want is to be able to further subdue everyone else.
Also ironic and sad: poor (poor as in not rich) white men were never at the top, they were just as exploited as the rest, the are just made belive they weren’t. Of course they enjoy some extra perks, mostly judicial, but they have more in common with a poor black guy than with a millioner and nothing with a billioner
What a world we have. But at the very least is never dull.
“But what about my illegally obtained riches and privileges? My family enslaved people for hundreds of years, I’m nobility, and you’re just going to come to my home and take what is not yours? What about MY rights? Don’t rock the boat, keep everything the way it’s always been, meaning that I can enjoy royal privileges at the expense of other people’s suffering, famine, violence, and death. Or are you a filthy COMMUNIST?!”
It’s funny. I work with a bunch of righteimg guys a an energy cooperative which is pretty much light communism as it is collectively owned by the consumers without the ability for capital accumulation.
Yeah, I’ve found some right wingers that are like that; on everyday practical terms they like all that sharing and stuff, but somehow don’t connect it to the high-minded political ideals they like to talk about, Like two different topics to them.
They like sharing with the right kind of people.
That was lovely, thank you!
Propaganda works as a motherfucker, it did 80 years ago, it did 800 years ago, it did 8000 years ago and it is fucking AI weaponized today.
You want communism? Leave FOX on in your home at all times, you may not turn it off, you can lower the volume somewhat but it’s still on as you sleep, and if you disable it the dark men come and enable it again while you’re at work, and leave you with a little reminder and write your name in a little black leather bound notebook and tell your neighbors to report any suspicious behavior or they might be next up for a visit.
To someone who has experience, the GOP is Stalinism in disguise. They don’t hate communists, they hate that they don’t get to be the oppressors. They are 100% the same shit.
I had an interaction a few weeks ago where I made the same obvious statement – that everything is political, like the price of milk is political – and the someone said I was making it political, like gun rights.
That conversation stopped there unfortunately, but it made me realize something.
Politicized is different from political for a lot of people.
Maybe most people realize the price of gas is political, but they don’t think that their internet bill, or whatever, is political. It’s just market forces to them, or whatever they assume about capitalism being good.
Ultimately, I think my point is that when people say things like foss shouldn’t be political, I think they’re saying they agree, but they would lose their in-group status be agreeing with something “woke” like ethics in software. So they have to make a proxy argument about what is and isn’t political.
You know what solves this?
Education.
You know what this nation does not have?
Education*.
(* terms and conditions apply)
Agreed.
Funny that I think you tapped into another politicized proxy argument here. People want their kids to get a good education, but they didn’t want it to be woke.
Things were better when it was puritanical teaching and sex – and anything about sex – was bad and parents didn’t have to think about their little horny teenagers touching each other. Gross, right?
Hence, book bans instead of education funding.
This is like that time I discovered a dude who reviewed camping equipment and watched like ten of his videos and then all of a sudden it went from “top ten hatchets for the back country” to “Zionist lizard Jews are stealing our testosterone to make us compliant.”
It took me months to convince YouTube to stop showing me anti woke content.
Once YouTube decides you might be a good candidate for rightwing radicalization or conspiracy theories, good luck getting the algorithm to show you anything else lol. I am honestly surprised you even got the algorithm off that in 5 months. YouTube has permanently decided I am a good target to manipulate into conspiracies and rightwing content based on the fact that it has figured out I am a white man and I watch YouTube. Does it matter the only youtube political content I watch is leftist YouTube channels like the Majority Report? It does not.
I watched one guy’s channel where he travelled and filmed megalithic structures around the world, until out of the blue one day he just started ranting about wokeness and gays and soy liberals or whatever the fuck.
I am so fucking done with literally both sides of that red herring being dangled in front of hyenas to keep them killing each other over the scraps instead of biting the hand that enslaves them.
There is zero correlation between technical acuity and moral maturity.
Being good at doing something does not make you a moral person. It’s easy to get it wrong because society actually, consciously and ubiquitly promotes and reinforces the equivalence.
“That isn’t happening”
While that position held, Marx now acknowledged that the standard of living of the wage earners advances with every progressive stride the bourgeoisie take. The matter, then, was more relative than absolute. Marx had now fully grown up.
Imo, a problem with Marx, is that tha the languaje he used lend itself to very broad interpretations, thus making it easy to absorb him into whatever ideology/plan/scheme.
People who like Stalin or Mao and in a lesser degree Trotsky and Lennin -which to whom we nowadays call commnunists- used his languaje to reaffirm their ideas. Even tho imo their ideoligical brand was quite a ways out of Marx.
Yeah, it’s annoying to talk to some self described communists. There was one guy who said consumer cooperatives were capitalist despite the fact that they are communally owned, don’t allow for capital accumulation, and are literally a form of organization Marx endorsed, but the guy I was arguing told me I needed to do more reading. Consumer cooperatives are a little more on the Anarchist side close to worker cooperatives, but they are most definitely socialist.
I saw a guy here in Lemmy arguing once that the nordics are socialists contries… The dude also told the comenters trying to explain why is not true to go read… I get they were confused and I belive is a easy mistake to make, but he had so many good comments explaining in a calm and easy way why he wasn’t right and he keept just deying it.
There is just sadly too much (miss)information out there and most people dont have the interest, energy or (and in a lesser degree) the capacity to exercise critical thinking and reading.
He’s a product of the structuralism which dominated the industrial era philosophy. It’s incredibly obvious if you study political science even a little bit, and it’s the easiest angle of criticism towards any orthodox theory of the era. Stalin and Mao are very much in that same modernist camp. That’s why I just roll my eyes at internet communists who consider themselves well read because they have Marxist.org bookmarked. These are people who think the biggest problem with Jacobin is not enough fan service.
All this stuff is just laughably outdated. The most annoying part is that it has been updated to reflect more modern philosophy, but they never want to hear it. They see contemporary leftist thought as Marxist revisionism and just compromising with liberals, which is the worst sin imaginable.
People forget that Marx advocated for ruthless criticisim. As a rule whenever I read something and it peeks my interest, before I keep digging further I ask myself: Where’s the catch here? Are they trying to sell me something? Who can actually benefit from this.
This simple scruttiny maybe won’t reveal the holes in the idea, but it will lead you to things you can research, read contra-arguments and get a fuller and rounder idea of whatever you are reading. But sadly this is a skill that is getting loss, not because people can’t intellectually do it, they just do not care or want to put the effort.
I mean he basically admits that his beliefs structure is just following the herd and that he hasn’t put any effort into understanding philosophical first principles. I wouldn’t think about it too hard.
I think everyone should be able to own nerve gas.
Not THIS guy, of course, but everyone else.
Hmmm… I never said that. You’re misreprensenting my words.
Maybe what I meant is that there should be clear and hard rules for gun ownership? Maybe I did mean that only him should not be able to own one, perhaps I even meant that only people I agree with shoud own guns. Is not possible to for you to know what I generally believe about ownership and regulation only from my comment above. So please do not put words in my mouth.
Also, bold statement comming from someone with a clear wink to Anarchy in their handle.
From GNU/Linux to GUN/Linux
Open-source?
More like open fire!
From copy left to cop piglet.
From FOSS to FOSG
GNU/GUN
GNU + GUN
And here my friends, we can see an exhibit from the United States of America.
There are plenty of pro-gun people outside the US too
I think the topic is not so much “gun folks”, but more the idea that the US 2nd amendment right equates with all freedoms.
The first and second amendments are seen as the cornor stone rights for sure in the US. They enable and protect each other and other rights played out in the constitution.
There are actually a few open source gun designs, namely designed to circumvent gun control measures by being built from off the shelf parts with limited machining.
The one I’ve seen most of is the FGC-9 that’s being used by rebels in Myanmar to be used in raids against government troops, after which they can be replaced with scavenged conventional small arms.
The gun’s name is an initialism for “Fuck Gun Control”, with the “9” referencing its 9mm cartridge.
They’ve got the best branding
“From the makers of the BFG-9000… the all new FGC-9 sidearm!”
Actually it’s less of a sidearm more of a pistol calibre carbine chambered in 9mm, and the dude that made it “mysteriously died” in german police custody so no more from him.
Apparently he actually died in his car 2 days after a fruitless police raid, allegedly of “heart attack”.
Huh TIL, thanks. Heard at the time he had been in custody, guess I heard wrong.
the dude that made it “mysteriously died” in german police custody so no more from him.
Not that it matters, there’s a bunch of people I’ve seen working on rifle-caliber 3D printed weapons now.
Hell, I follow some folks on Twitter who were developing handmade anti tank launchers (which are actually legal for certain US States if they’re registered with the govt lmao). Definitely not going to get glowied any time soon im sure.
The main difference is JSTARK was German and was snitched on by an Englishman, who I’d bet is the guy who filmed that piece on him for Popular Front that slimy bastard. (Also turns out he died two days after the raid not in custody, my bad!)
All that is for sure legal stateside! (Well unless CA, NJ…)
I also use my software to regularly murder the crap out of hundreds of people.
Oh, wait, that is grand theft auto and battlefield, and neither are open source, what have I done?
Shame on you! Grab a rifle and storm your school today!
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Get on Xonotic
Wesnoth
Alright…
I support free software, so anyone has easy access to great software and the opportunity to create amazing things and make another person’s life better.
I also support gun rights, so anyone has easy access to guns and the opportunity to end another person’s life.
This is the trust-fall of Poe’s law.
I watched the video. He says that if you support FOSS you should support guns, but never once advocates for guns to be free.
He says the problem is that politics are tribal, and people are simply in their corner, cheering for their teams - without acknowledging that there are Americans that want different levels of gun control, and there are reasons that people want gun control outside of tribal politics, and there are Republicans/conservatives/gun enthusiasts that have nuanced opinions, and support things like red flag laws and certain gun control policies.
He’s a troll trump supporter, which is all anyone needs to know. If there are 9 regular people at a table and a nazi sits down, and all that.
His arguments are so disingenuous, lol.
Having the right to have a mass killing device is never required.
To be fair, enough guns can make any project open source.
They actually are open source, and there is indeed a lot of material out there to help people with everything they need to build their own. The only part that is illegal to make on your own is the part with a serial number on it, for tracking purposes.
I feel the legality aspect is highly dependent on one’s location.
Nono, everything is within the US.
The only part that is illegal to make on your own is the part with a serial number on it
That’s 100% incorrect (by federal law, can’t speak to any specific states) and is most often the only part that is printed, for exactly that reason.
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This may be true for some specific US states, but declaring it wholesale true in the US is wrong. From the ATF FAQ on homemade firearms:
You do not have to add a serial number or register the [privately manufactured firearm] if you are not engaged in the business of making firearms for livelihood or profit.
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Super uncivil reply
I apologize for replying to what you wrote, and for not having future knowledge that you were going to edit your comment.
If could in the future predict the future and comments accordingly that would be preferred thank you /s
Technically, you’re supposed to give it a serial number and register it with a local FFL.
Nope, not “technically” correct either.
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I think what you and the other commenter are having friction with is that on your first comment declaring that it is “technically required” you did not specify that it was state by state, and the vagueness gave the impression it was a statement applying nationwide.
Now you are showing a link talking about state-by-state legislation, which is a more restricted and nuanced reframing of the original statement. Beyond that, your link seems to show 39 states do allow homemade firearms with no additional state laws, making that the majority. While declaring the rules one way or the other for the whole nation would be incorrect, saying that they are allowed is less incorrect since the majority of states do allow them.
Still wrong
They further require that dealers and manufacturers of ghost gun building blocks must be federally licensed.
The problem here is “ghost guns” is a nonsense word anti-gunners made up with no actual definition, much like “assault weapons”. Most often it refers to simply guns without serial numbers, which the media and government use to manipulate the public into thinking a bunch of people are being murdered with 3D-printed firearms instead of firearms with the SN scratched off. It’s far easier to simply buy one off the shelf at Academy or at your favorite local black market.
“Building blocks” are more commonly referred to as “80% lowers” and are not 3D-printed plastic, but blocks of CNC-machined aluminum. Yes, the White House is trying to make it illegal to own unregistered chunks of aluminum.
Further, 3D-printed lowers are manufactured by individuals, not sold by dealers or manufacturers.
It’s kind of wild to realize that some states are trying to outlaw owning blocks of steel that have zero machining operations on them because benchtop CNC exists. I don’t even know how they think that this is going to work; make every single machine and tool and die shop have an FFL in order to own a Bridgeport?
This is a fundamental problem with gun control; the tools that are used to make firearms–and to make ammunition components–are widely available, and have many uses outside of making firearms. Most people don’t make their own guns because it’s more expensive if that’s all you’re doing, unless that’s your business.
The only part that is illegal to make on your own is the part with a serial number on it, for tracking purposes.
Perhaps that is the case elsewhere, but to point out that in the US, it is legal on the Federal level to make your own complete firearm for personal use. Assuming no state specific laws prohibit it, it is by default legal. ATF FAQ page. If you are not an FFL holder, and are not going to sell the firearm it does not need any serial number. All NFA restrictions still apply to homemade firearms.
The practice of legally homemaking firearms pre-dates 3D printing, with 80% AR-15 lowers being a modern and widespread example.
A lot of the 3d printed designs are.
If you wanna get really crazy, last I heard was that people were working on 3d printed 9mm ammo.
So not only are the guns FOSS, but the bullets are too.
im struggling to imagine how a plastic bullet would work
I’m presuming printed cases. Factory made polymer cased ammunition has been proven, so the logical next step is figuring out how to DIY it.
i can see that, but 3d printer plastic necessarily has to have a much lower melting point no?
im sorry if this is dumb, im not a big gun connoisseur, isnt it very easy to manufacture the metal casing anyway? and im also assuming you would need to make the lead thing too.
I’m not looped into any possible home attempts to make DIY casings, but I would presume you’d need to do some problem solving with the material. It just seems like the most plausible angle to work on to me. The point of thermal issues is relevant, not just in the material standing up to heat but also for cooling the gun itself. It’s imagine that successful DIY printed casing would be more feasible with single shot or bolt action type firearms.
With traditional home reloading, no people normally don’t produce their own casings. You can buy them, or you can reuse already fired casings.
It depends on the level of 3d printer you’re talking about. Your average $300 at-home printer is basically the hot end of a glue gun on stepper motors, though you might be surprised at some of the materials they’re capable of printing in. Everything from basic ABS plastics to Nylon and Carbon-Fiber reinforced filaments are easily available.
If you’re talking commercial grade, $10k+ printers, that’s an entirely different story. Commercial printers are capable of printing objects out of steel. There’s been a lot of work in that area to print all kinds of things from guns parts in military grade polymers to entire engine blocks, no assembly required.
On the 3d printed gun end, supposedly people have figured out the issues to the point where you can print 100% of the parts out of super basic plastic (the most commonly used plastic in 3d printing is PLA, which has a melting point around 200 degrees Celsius), though the stuff I’ve seen online is more about using internals from cheap guns and 3d printing the external “furniture” of the gun either for custom cosmetics or aftermarket parts like handles and grips, or to create an expensive gun out of cheaper components. As for the ammo, I’ve only heard that “people were working on it.” I don’t know any of the specifics.
I’m going to assume they don’t include the gunpowder
Gauss guns don’t need gunpowder, only gigantic capacitors.
For those you need to look at DIY channels, not 3D printing. Besides, I wouldn’t be surprised if gun nuts were all “Ewwww, gauss guns? Where’s the explosion? More like GIRLY GUNS, amirite?”
I couldn’t tell you myself, I think it’s crazy too, but NATO trialed caseless ammo during the Cold War, and if that’s possible, I don’t see why plastic ammo (at least cases) couldn’t be.
Though you sure as hell won’t see me jumping in line to try it out.
Caseless is an entirely different branch of innovation than polymer cases, but both have been shown to work.
There are multiple examples, but one that sprang to mind was the Textron NGSW submission, if you want to see what was being floated to the military recently.
https://soldiersystems.net/2020/10/13/textron-systems-next-generation-squad-weapon-update/
Crazy, I saw a lot in the shotgun realm for 3d printing slugs and shot and sabot shells, but nothing else yet. I’ll have to do some digging. Honestly moving away from lead sounds great to me.
No need for a 3D printer to make your own ammo, when there are reloading presses already designed for that that will make reliable and safe ammo much more easily. People also make their own lead bullets from tire weights and fishing weights, just by melting it in a crucible and pouring lead into molds
If I had to guess, the two most likely reasons are: for the challenge of it, and to reduce the amount of required tools.
I feel like the people who work on 3d printed guns largely fall into 2 camps - the people who just like to build things, and the people who look at a 3d printer as a valuable tool in the whole “become ungovernable” concept.
I know the second group are responsible for designing a fully 3d printed gun that’s currently being used to fight against a genocidal military regime in Myanmar, for example. The people there are getting zero international aid, and can’t get their hands on guns. But, they can get ammo, and they can get 3d printers. So they’ve set up 3d printer assembly lines to make guns that are at least good enough to kill a soldier and take his gun. It was designed for exactly that kind of situation - basically the Liberator one-shot pistol the CIA designed to be air-dropped into occupied France during WW2, except as a modern semi-auto SMG chambered in 9mm.
This GNU/GUN is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY. IN NO EVENT UNLESS REQUIRED BY APPLICABLE LAW OR AGREED TO IN WRITING WILL ANY COPYRIGHT HOLDER, OR ANY OTHER PARTY WHO MODIFIES AND/OR CONVEYS THE PROGRAM AS PERMITTED ABOVE, BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR DAMAGES, INCLUDING ANY GENERAL, SPECIAL, INCIDENTAL OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES ARISING OUT OF THE USE OR INABILITY TO USE THE PROGRAM (INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO LOSS OF DATA OR DATA BEING RENDERED INACCURATE OR LOSSES SUSTAINED BY YOU OR THIRD PARTIES OR A FAILURE OF THE PROGRAM TO OPERATE WITH ANY OTHER PROGRAMS), EVEN IF SUCH HOLDER OR OTHER PARTY HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES.
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Yeah you think. They’ve come a long way since Cody Wilson’s proof of concept dubbed “The Liberator.” Check out the 3011 or Hoffman lowers, or the FGC9 “Bob” rest JSTARK’s soul.
Watch in horror as I mag dump my 3d printed AR
They are, much in the same way as 3D printers themselves.
Check out DEFCAD.
This is really bad advice. DEFCAD is a paid service that requires a fucking FFL to download files, but this is not made clear at the time of purchase. The gatalog is a much better resource for anyone new to the scene. Can’t stop the signal.
forget defcad, cant even use it outside of 'murica, all designs are pretty much uploaded to odysee
DEFCAD
That’s an interesting guitar tuning
Some are kinda, yeah. The AR-15 is for sure, and most 3d printed lowers would be, and iirc gen 3 glocks (I think, because that’s what all the 80% and 3d print glock lowers are), and I think colt SAA by now, but many designs are still owned by the original company.
Well everyone here loves piracy so ride this goalpost with me, it’s sustainable mass transit
I’m not an expert in 3D designing, but it seems to me that the AR-15 is a popular 3D print rifle from a practical perspective more than anything else.
The lower isn’t under extreme stresses, it can be thickened and reenforced without impeding function, and it snaps in modularly to factory made uppers. It helps a lot that the AR-15 parts market is diverse and easily accessed.
There’s a reason that I listed ARs and 3d printed lowers separately. ARs themselves are basically open source, nobody “owns” the design, so say Hodge, Noveske, Colt, SOLGW, Radian, etc, can all produce lowers etc, MIM industries can produce all the lpk bits, but so can NBS etc, cerro forge and Brass Aluminum Forge Co can both make identical “milspec” uppers, the only thing that is really “trademarked” on any of it is the branding, or an advancement like Geissele’s maritime bolt catch (which similar knock offs were produced immediately, anyway.) If you started making and selling say a2 parts (except lowers, but that’s just because you need a licence to manufacture for sale) tomorrow nobody could stop you.
Interestingly, Glock is another one that there’s strong 3D printed support for. It’s likely because Glock was designed to be polymer, and there’s very strong aftermarket support for them, so you can print the serialized part and make it work as a firearm with no real problems.
I was just thinking out loud more about why you don’t see printed AKs or at least not nearly as much. The AR-15 layout just seems practical for printing.
Yeah the Plastikov does exist but is definitely less popular and a bit more involved. They also have printable CETMEs now though too lol. Basically any cheap parts kit someone is probably working on a solution if one doesn’t exist, and they’re doing cool shit like the 3011.
ARs and Glocks are also some of the most popular purchased firearms (like through an FFL), so I’m not surprised they’d be the most printed, they’re basically the Toyota Camry of guns, easy to work on, dependable, and last long.
A printed CETME is too adventurous for my blood.
Understandable lol, they do work though! Ivan made the file.
